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Post by Todd on Feb 4, 2017 9:46:22 GMT -6
I don't know how great the disagreement would be with the statement that not every person who comes to church is a Christian, or that there may be a variety of reasons people attend. But we cannot be deluded into thinking that we are succeeding in our various ministries by encouraging those who attend for the wrong reasons. The fact is that our practice, sermons, music, and worship should drive non-Christians to either get saved or get out. This is the very first order of business of the doctrine of separation.
God does not need our artificially inflated numbers, and His Church does not profit by the compromise. This is an issue where it is easy for young pastors to think that things have always been as they are today. But ask the old timers (pastors and Parishioners) how it used to be, and how the new practices make them squirm inside. They will tell you.
discussion? Reaction? Help?
Todd
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wally
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by wally on Feb 7, 2017 9:03:36 GMT -6
I agree with much of this - but then we have the parable of the wheat and the tares. I am not sure our job is to figure out who is in or not - but rather to trust God with the sorting out at the end and simply proclaim the claims of the cross in the meantime. I think the problem is that we offer a cheap grace.
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Post by Todd on Feb 7, 2017 23:33:40 GMT -6
That is certainly true. I am not God, and would never pretend to know with certainty what is in the heart of another. But what I am saying is that I think it is wrong to treat the church service as just another place for folks to go. The church service is for Christians only. Now if one who is not a Christian comes in, I do not advocate asking him for his credentials at the door, nor would I ask him to leave if I felt he were not truly a Christian. What I do advocate is preaching the word, growing and edifying the Christians under the Pastor's care so thoroughly and vigorously that the people "self-sort." By that I mean that sermons and admonitions and doctrinal teachings should be such that the Christians rejoice to hear them, and the non-Christians are so uncomfortable that they know they must either convert or get out. Encouraging people who are not Christians, may not be Christians, or have some ulterior motive for attending church, to attend church on the off chance that hey may be charmed by the lukewarm sermon, cheats the Christians by courting the fellow travelers. Wally, I'm sure you remember Pastor Keltner better than I do, and you know his sermons were pretty stiff sometimes. Some of his sermons made me squirm, and I was a Chistian. Ever wonder why the body of believers was so great at Carbondale? It was because anyone who might have wandered in off the streets during one of Keltner's sermons would have seen quickly what was going on, and either had a change of heart or a change of location. Todd
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Post by Todd on Feb 11, 2017 12:16:56 GMT -6
Wally; I also wanted to ask you about the expression "cheap grace" in your reply. I've seen it before, but again, I wonder if it means today what it meant when I was younger. What are we talking about here? Todd
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